Chapters: 1/1 Fandom: Iron Man (Movies) Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Characters: Tony Stark, Obadiah Stane, Pepper Potts Summary:
Has anyone written something about the Marvel Universe’s multiple PhD holders discussing their academic experiences? Because I would read the heck out of that.
In case anyone forgot that they actually watched this part of the movie: Tony’s real motivations for the Accords.
From his own mouth.
Not to save people, or rein in the team, or keep more accidents from happening, or provide accountability.
It was all so he could get Pepper back, but still have a reason – an excuse – to build his suits.
He’s
willing to shackle his entire team with a document co-authored by a man
who is known for hating enhanced beings, because he doesn’t feel like
compromising with the woman he supposedly loves on no longer making the machines that have nearly gotten both of them killed on multiple occasions.
Tony Stark, you are scum.
Either the entire scene, and the nuances of the movie, flew over your head or you’re purposely trying to start shit again by putting your post on the pro Tony tag. For your sake, I hope it’s the latter.
Guess OP forgot that this was ALSO actually part of the movie? i.e. Tony’s Real Motivations for the Accords. From his own mouth. Where he brings up Charlie Spencer to remind the team that while the Avengers may save the day fighting bad guys, there is still a lot of collateral damage left behind, and there are still GOOD, INNOCENT people who are killed in the conflict. (And the reason why Tony brings Charlie Spencer up as a specific victim is because Charlie was a young man who had so much to offer the world to make it a better place. That’s literally the mission of the Avengers – make the world a better, safer place.)
Now, lemme sum up the plot of Iron Man 1 for ya real quick, OP: Accountability.
And here’s a quote from IM1: “I saw that I had become part of a system that is comfortable with zero accountability” Tony says, right before shutting down his weapons manufacturing division of Stark Industries – against the protests of everybody else – after discovering his weapons were falling into the wrong hands and were being used to terrorise innocent civilians. Tony held himself accountable for this and actively tried to do something about it (even though Obadiah Stane was the one who was double-dealing Stark weapons under the table to terrorists behind Tony’s back). Tony built a suit of advanced armour and personally flew to Gulmira to liberate the innocent civilians and destroy all of his weapons to prevent them from being used against said innocent civilians.
Now, how does that relate to Captain America: Civil War? Well, Tony has once again realised that he – and the Avengers – are beginning to become comfortable with zero accountability. The Avengers are essentially a US-based paramilitary team of super-powered, enhanced individuals who ignore sovereign borders and basically invade other countries to fight bad guys. No cooperation with the governments of those countries. They just show up unannounced. Then after the battle is done, and they “save the day,” they all go home – leaving collateral damage behind in their wake (however, Tony actually contributes his resources to help pay for and clean up the damages caused). The Avengers face no real consequences and don’t answer to anybody for the damages caused. They aren’t heldaccountable.
This isn’t okay with 117 countries.
117 countries drafted and co-signed the Accords – not Ross (Ross was the one that presented the already drafted Accords to the team because he is the US Secretary of State – there is no way he wouldn’t be involved with the Accords.) Also, King T’Chaka of Wakanda was apparently the one who co-authored the Accords. He was also the one spearheading the campaign, appearing on television and publicly calling for the Avengers to be held accountable for their actions.
Now, back to Tony – and OP’s shitty ass, biased, fake “analysis” of his motivations for signing the Accords.
“Not to save people, or rein in the team, or keep more accidents from happening, or provide accountability.”
Refer to the video I provided above, where Tony’s argument actually includes all of these things – debunking OP’s ridiculous claim that he ‘doesn’t care about anyone else.’ Here’s some direct quotes “from Tony’s own mouth” which discredits OP’s dumb ass analysis: – Tony has an entire monologue expressing guilt over not being able ‘to save’ everybody – people like Charlie Spencer. – “We need to be put in check (…) If we can’t accept limitations, we’re boundary-less, we’re no better than the bad guys” i.e. ‘rein in the team’ – Expresses guilt over a mistake he made (with Ultron). Sees the Accords as a way to stop ‘more accidents from happening’ – “When I realised what my weapons were capable of in the wrong hands I shut it down – stopped manufacturing” i.e. a call-back to Iron Man 1 where Tony ‘provided accountability’ for his mistakes and actively did something to fix it i.e. a clear parallel between Tony’s motivations in Iron Man 1 and Civil War.
“It was all so he could get Pepper back, but still have a reason – an excuse – to build his suits. He’s willing to shackle his entire team with a document co-authored by a man who is known for hating enhanced beings, because he doesn’t feel like compromising with the woman he supposedly loves on no longer making the machines that have nearly gotten both of them killed on multiple occasions.”
Nope. Wrong. He isn’t “willing to shackle his entire team” beCAUSE ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTEEN COUNTRIES SIGNED THE ACCORDS BECAUSE THEY ARE SICK AND TIRED OF THIS AMERICAN-BASED TEAM OF SUPER-POWERED INDIVIDUALS IGNORING THEIR BORDERS AND BASICALLY INVADING THEIR COUNTRIES TO FIGHT BAD GUYS WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION TO ENTER THEIR FUCKING COUNTRIES!!!! THAT IS NOT A FUCKING UNREASONABLE REQUEST!!! THESE COUNTRIES HAVE LEGITIMATE FUCKING CONCERNS!!! AND THE AVENGERS CAN’T JUST IGNORE A DOCUMENT PUT TOGETHER BY THE UNITED NATIONS AND SIGNED BY 117 COUNTRIES!!!!! WHAT TONY IS ACTUALLY WILLING TO DO IS COMPROMISE WITH THE REST OF THE FUCKING WORLD AND ACCEPT ACCOUNTABILITY FOR HIS AND THE TEAM’S MISTAKES!!!! AND IF YOU ACTUALLY WATCH THE FUCKING MOVIE WITH YOUR BIASED HATE-GOGGLES OFF YOUR FUCKING FACE OR ACTUALLY LISTEN TO WHAT THE DIRECTORS HAVE REPEATEDLY SAID ABOUT THIS MOVIE THEN YOU’D FUCKING REALISE THAT BOTH TONY AND STEVE’S STANCES RE: THE ACCORDS ARE BOTH FUCKING VALID AND THAT NEITHER SIDE IS COMPLETELY WRONG OR COMPLETELY RIGHT!!!
Also, Tony signing the Accords wasn’t “all so he could get Pepper back” – it is one of the reasons why he chooses to sign, yes, but it is certainly NOT the main or only reason. And Tony wanting to be able to balance his personal life and Avengers life isn’t actually a bad thing. He’s a man who has already made a lot of sacrifices since becoming Iron Man, and not wanting to lose the woman he loves isn’t selfish. His compromise with Pepper – the woman he absolutely loves – in Iron Man 3 wasn’t to stop making the suits altogether. He promised Pepper he’d “shave the suits down a little bit” so he could focus on getting better and deal with all of his issues that were destroying him on the inside. (Help me out. How does that saying go? “You can’t help others until you help yourself”???)
Furthermore, he isn’t looking for an “excuse” to build his suits. The REASON why he can’t stop being Iron Man is because he is driven by the need to PROTECT PEOPLE. His entire character motivation has always been about protecting people. In fact, Peter Parker’s line in Civil War actually sums Tony up perfectly: “When you can do the things that I can, but you don’t, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you.” And Peter’s speech also mirrors Tony’s own speech to Nick Fury in Age of Ultron about the prophetic vision Wanda forced him to see and how he ‘saw all the Avengers dead because of him – because he didn’t do all he could’ to save them. Everything bad that has ever happened (whether its actually his fault or not) Tony blames on himself. He puts the weight of the entire world on his shoulders because he believes he has a responsibility to protect others.
He will NEVER STOP being Iron Man, no matter how many times he may try to walk away from it, because protecting people is the very essence of Tony Stark’s character.
Original Poster, you are dumb.
Goodness, these replies keep getting eaten by the notes. You guys are going
to have to start tagging me when you answer if this keeps up.
I’ll start this by saying that Tony doesn’t have to remind the rest of the
team that despite saving the day, there are innocent civilian casualties
whenever they fight. They are all well aware that good, innocent people
die in giant battles like this. If anyone, it’s Tony that tends not to realize
this until it’s shoved in his face.
“And the reason why Tony brings Charlie Spencer up as a specific victim
is because Charlie was a young man who had so much to offer the world to make
it a better place.”
You know what other young man with a lot to offer the world was killed
before he had the chance to make the world a better place?
Pietro.
The little orphan boy who grew up trying to protect his sister and the other
people of his country against the forces who were attacking them, dropping
bombs on them, and murdering them in the streets. The boy who agreed to let
himself undergo an experimental procedure for even a chance that he
could come out on the other side powerful enough to stand up to the people that
were terrorizing his country. The kid who was using his super powers to get food and clothing for the poor and homeless of his city before he got
swept up by Ultron.
The boy who fought with the Avengers, and gave hislife
to save people from Ultron’s attack. But do we ever see him brought up as one
of the countless victims in Sokovia?
No, because his death doesn’t matter to Tony. And apparently neither do the
countless other innocent Sokovian victims, which he never bothers looking up or
mentioning.
Tony brings up Charlie Spence to show the rest of the team “hey look there
were American casualties too,” because that was a fact that Tony hadn’t
realized until he was confronted by the boy’s mother. That’s the fact that made
him start caring.
I hate to say it, but Tony is very America-centralized in his thinking.
Even in Iron Man 1, he doesn’t start being concerned about where his bombs
are ending up or who they’re being used on until there are American casualties
because of them. He even comments on this in specific, in the scene right after
he gets back from his ordeal with the Ten Rings, which you bothered to quote in
your own argument.
And I’ll admit, your quote is lovely, but you left off the opening line:
“I saw young Americans killed by the very weapons I created to defend
them and protect them. And I saw that I had become part of a system that is
comfortable with zero-accountability.”
Note, this is also the man that said:
“I guarantee you the day weapons are no longer needed to keep the peace,
I’ll start making bricks and beams for baby hospitals.”
“My old man had a philosophy: peace means having a bigger stick than the
other guy.”
“They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I
respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once.”
Tony knew what he was doing. You don’t build and sell bombs with the mindset
that they’re gonna be put on display somewhere. You sell them knowing that somebody
is going to use them to kill other human beings.
Tony always knew that his bombs were being used on people, it just
didn’t matter to him until they started being used on Americans.
He brings up an American casualty because that’s what finally made the scope
of Ultron sink in for him – the fact that is wasn’t just some random people in
a third world country that got killed in the fallout.
It was a young man from his country who had gone over there to help
and had lost his life as well.
(This is why his “making amends” for Sokovia is providing money to American
Grad Students instead of helping the hundreds of homeless Sokovians rebuild and
recover overseas.)
And I hate to say it, but bringing up Charlie doesn’t sway a lot of people
in that room. Mostly because they all cared before one American kid made
his way into the total.
In fact, one of the people he’s giving this lecture to is WANDA MAXIMOFF who
lost her entire world in the Sokovia attack. Her whole family is dead.
Her friends and neighbors were the names filling the victim list. Her home, her city, is a CRATER. She lost everything.
She joined the Avengers because she had nothing left to go back to.
And Tony is standing here telling her that she needs to realize that there
were civilian casualties in the Ultron fight.
I don’t know about you, but to me, that’s kinda sick.
This is incredibly personal to her, and always has been, enough that she
would turn a blind eye on the fact that Tony (to her knowledge) murdered her
parents when she was ten and has been terrorizing Sokovia with his suits for
years, in order to team up with him and the rest of the Avengers and stop
Ultron before he hurt anyone else.
And she’s not the only one.
Steve was a soldier in World War 2. He knows that any form of
conflict will always bring collateral, which is why he’s spent the past year
with his team chasing down and stopping the crazy people who are blowing things
up and releasing deadly diseases on innocent populations in order to “get back
at” the Avengers for what they’ve lost. Civilian casualties are not some kind
of a new concept to him – he’s been actively trying to preventthem
fromhappening for the past year.
Sam came into this from a para-rescue unit. He was the one picking
up and saving people from combat situations.
Rhody has personally stepped in to make sure Tony didn’t cause
civilian casualties before. He doesn’t need this lecture.
Natasha is here because she hurt innocents – “I’ve got red in my
ledger and I’m looking to blot that out.” Being here with the Avengers and
protecting people is literally her making amends for the innocent blood on her
hands.
The only person who wasn’t acutely aware of the innocents who got hurt
thanks to their actions was Tony. And Tony isn’t here because the Avengers need
to take responsibility for the damage they’ve caused and the lives they’ve
ended.
He’s here to alleviate his guilt by saying “look I have rules now so if
people still get hurt by something I do, I’m not to blame.” “Look, the UN needs
me as Iron Man to go blow something up, so when I make another suit Pepper
can’t be mad at me.” “Look, I was just doing what 117 countries all agreed that
I could do. If you aren’t happy about it don’t confront me, go yell at them.”
Tony pushes the blame and thinks this solves the problem, because Tony
canonically doesn’t know how to be responsible for his actions.
Rhody even tells him: “You are institutionally incapable of being
responsible.”
The Accords aren’t really about accountability. Because like Steve says in
that very scene you linked, the Accords are about who calls the shots
for the Avengers, and who gets to control them as an elite fighting unit.
Steve: “Tony, if somebody dies on your watch you don’t give up.”
Tony: “Who says we’re giving up?”
Steve: “We are if we don’t take responsibility for our actions. This document
just shifts the blame.”
And that’s exactly what it does. If you look at the Accords, they don’t make
the Avengers accountable. They just change the who takes the blame for the
consequences of their actions from the Avengers personally to the World
Security Council portion of the UN. (Which, may I remind you, tried to solve
the New York crisis by throwing a nuke at it.) At the end of the day,
the Accords are about who the group of people accepting the slap on the wrist
is – because we all know that’s the only consequence for these kinds of
things that they’ll get – and the Accords makes it so that it’s the UN being
scolded instead of the Avengers.
Steve is not okay with this for multiple reasons. The first is that it is
quite literally Tony refusing to be held accountable by pushing the
blame to someone higher up; and second because he’s dealt with the UN before.
I’ll remind you again, Steve fought in World War 2.
You know, the World War where the UN kinda sat on their hands and debated
back and forth and stalled while Hitler was throwing millions of
innocent people into concentration camps, because the politicians didn’t feel
like getting involved? The war where politicians with their own agendas who
refused to take action led to the deaths of literally thousands of people
before anyone got involved? The war where his own government would
rather use their super soldier as a celebrity TV star than let him go
single-handedly storm Nazi bases and rescue hundreds of Allied prisoners from
HYDRA weapons factories like he was designed to do?
Steve knows damn well that he can’t trust these people to operate for the
greater good because at the end of the day they will always pick the move that
gets them re-elected, not necessarily the one that saves innocent people.
On top of that, it was just revealed that a good portion of the UN was
HYDRA.
Let me run that by you again, in case you didn’t catch it.
A GOOD PORTION OF THE UN WAS WORKING FOR HYDRA.
The people who have been drafting up the Accords for God-knows how long were
working with an organization that wants the Avengers all put on leashes and
banned from entering their countries to mess up their human experimentation.
The ones who, in Winter Soldier, created a “safety” program that “solved the
world’s problems” by sending military airships around the globe and murdering
everyone that they deemed to be a potential threat.
The Accords still seem like a “good way to protect innocent people” to you?
Additionally, the Accords state that the enhanced individuals will “report
to the leaders of their current country of residence.” Which means that no,
they won’t be reporting to the “117 countries that drafted and co-signed
the Accords” as some kind of unbiased force for the good of all, they will all
be reporting to Ross, in America,as his personal lap dogs for
whatever projects that he feels are in his country’s (or his personal) best
interest. Because they all currently live IN AMERICA. And according to those same Accords, they aren’t allowed to move out of the country without the agreement
of the ENTIRE UN.
And if they screw up, the American government will be held responsible, not
the Avengers. They’re still not being held accountable for their
actions, and NOTHING is being done by anybody to prevent civilian
casualties.
This entire movie is Tony working desperately to alleviate his guilty
conscience.
He doesn’t know how to take responsibility for his actions, so he pushes the
blame. Ultron is the AVENGERS fault. Sokovia was the AVENGERS fault. They are
ALL to blame for this. So they ALL need to sign the Accords, so he can
personally sign over his title as “owner” of the Avengers to the UN, and then
it’s the UN’s fault whenever the Avengers accidentally create
casualties.
“The Avengers face no real consequences and don’t answer to anybody for
the damages caused.”
The only Avenger who doesn’t face consequences for what he does is
Tony.
Team Cap winds up at the Raft (in incredibly inhumane holding
conditions, I might add) for “breaking the Accords.”
And yet Tony, who also willingly broke the Accords, as well as
kidnapped a fifteen-year-old enhanced boy to take to a fight in another country
(without explaining even the beginning of what was going on or having him
sign the Accords, mind you) doesn’t get in any trouble. Ross even tells him
point blank “you’re damn lucky you’re not in one of these cells.”
And yet, he’s not. He’s allowed to walk free.
Because he’s Tony Stark, and he never gets in any real kind of trouble for
what he does.
In fact, immediately after that conversation, he goes and breaks the Accords again by going after Steve. And again, he gets off the hook while
Steve and Bucky have to go on the run.
Real support for his “taking accountability” document, right there.
And I think it’s ridiculous that I need to point this out to you, but LAGOS
WASN’T WANDA’S FAULT.
There was a terrorist who set off a bomb with the intent of blowing up an
entire marketplace full of innocents. Wanda stepped in and tried to save
everyone on the ground by lifting the bomb into the air to try and clear it of
everything. She lost control over it because it’s a live explosive that
she’s trying to control with her mind and the resulting blast arced out
and hit a nearby building. Now it was unfortunate that said building was a
hotel that happened to have people in it, but she was doing the right thing,
and it was in no way her fault.
This is not the Avengers running amok and killing innocents. This is the
Avengers dealing with a terrorist who had just tried to release a deadly
disease into a packed city, and who lit off a bomb in a crowded market, all
with the intent of killing thousands of innocent people, if not more,
with his actions.
And the country’s government had done nothing.
The Avengers stepped in because Lagos wasn’t taking action against the
terrorist, and they managed to bring the casualty total from a few thousand
down to eleven.
And Wanda got blamed for those eleven as if she’d been prancing around the
streets throwing lit sticks of dynamite.
You’re looking at the situation from the same angle that the UN wanted
everyone in the MCU to see it, and ignoring what actually happened.
Lagos was doing nothing to stop this man. They’d left their civilians to
fend for themselves with possibly some help from the local police force.
The Avengers stepped in to rescue thousands of people from this, and weren’t
able to save eleven of them from the attack.
They are not bothering to wait for personal invitations from whoever is
currently in charge because at the end of the day, saving people is more
important to them than bureaucracy, and they don’t care who the politicians
think is worth saving or not. They’re going to save everybody that they can.
They are only breaking rules when those rules are putting innocents at risk.
They are not “ignoring sovereign borders and basically invading other
countries to fight bad guys” whenever they feel like it, they are stepping in
to save innocents in the situations when their own governments have deserted
them or cannot help them.
And I will point out that everyone was apparently chill with this until
Ultron happened, and then they all looked at what remained of Sokovia and
decided that the Avengers might not have been such a great idea after all, if
their idea of “saving people” was building a self-aware death machine.
This only became a problem after Tony decided to take matters into
his own hands and build Ultron.
Your whole argument about Tony trying to make sure his team “isn’t operating
without boundaries” is frankly quite ridiculous, because at the end of the day
the only one operating without boundaries on that team is Tony “I don’t have
time for a morality debate” Stark, and that’s how it’s always been.
The only one of the Avengers that needs to be put in check is him.
• Unfriendly reminder that Wanda Maximoff MANIPULATED a man suffering from SEVERE PTSD into doing something horrible which HE was blamed for while NO ONE on his “team” defended him.
• Unfriendly reminder that Steve Rogers knew about the MURDER of Tony Stark’s parents and withheld the information.
• Unfriendly reminder that Steve did this and had the nerve to chastise Tony about KEEPING FUCKING SECRETS.
• Unfriendly reminder that Steve thought he knew better than 117 COUNTRIES, and decided to do what the fuck he wanted.
• Unfriendly reminder that Tony tried to COMPROMISE with Steve and he couldn’t meet him in the middle.
• Unfriendly reminder that his “team” couldn’t trust him even after he had literally risked his life for them TWICE.
• Unfriendly reminder that Natasha BETRAYED Tony even after she called in the Black Panther whom she knew would attack Bucky whereas Tony only called for backup that he knew wouldn’t react violently unless it was needed.
• Unfriendly reminder that people say that Tony (again, a man who suffers from SEVERE PTSD) overreacted after watching the man standing next to him (who is absolutely a victim, but his hands still committed those crimes) MURDER his parents in cold blood, and a man that he considered his friend KNEW about it to protect HIMSELF and his friend.
• Unfriendly reminder that all Tony got after the War was a SHIT TON of problems with the government and a CONDESCENDING letter from the same man who hurt him incredibly both physically and emotionally basically telling him “i’m sorry that you don’t understand that I was right”.
• Unfriendly reminder that Tony was BLAMED for the paralysis his BEST FRIEND now suffers by a man whom Tony had done A LOT for.
• Unfriendly reminded that Tony fucking Stark is treated so horribly in this fandom and he doesn’t deserve it.
* Unfriendly reminder that Steve Rogers quite possibly has PTSD himself after being involved in so many war conflicts.
* Unfriendly reminder that Steve Rogers lost Peggy Carter, one of the one people left from previous time, one of the only people who Steve can relate to, died while he was dealing with a huge amount of pressure.
* Unfriendly reminder that Steve Rogers put his faith in an organisation to see it crumble under the very organisation he loathes.
* Unfriendly reminder that Steve Rogers has probably lost his faith to governments and actually questions the Sokovia Accords, rightly so.
* Unfriendly reminder that Bucky Barnes ISN’T a villain but a victim to brainwashing.
* Unfriendly reminder that Bucky Barnes is Steve’s best friend (together with Sam) and the only person left from previous times, times where Steve wasn’t Captain America but just a tiny kid from Brooklyn.
* Unfriendly reminder that Bucky Barnes didn’t want any share in this conflict and hid away for years.
* Unfriendly reminder that Bucky Barnes was wrongfully accused of bombing the UN meeting based of weak evidence (no one thought of prosthetics? Really?) and Tony Stark blamed him as well.
* Unfriendly reminder that Bucky Barnes was VIOLATED and very UNWILLINGLY activated as the Winter Soldier, something he can’t help.
* Unfriendly reminder that Tony Stark put Wanda under house arrest because of an ACCIDENT and countered Steve’s protests with a weak-ass argument about her not being an American citizen (do you really think you can play by the ordinary rules there?).
* Unfriendly reminder that Tony Stark recruited Peter Parker, a KID, onto his side in a conflict he didn’t need to be involved in.
* Unfriendly reminder that Tony Stark told Steve that his judgement was errored but his was apparently fine, even though he first latched onto the Sokovia Accords because of personal guilt.
* Unfriendly reminder that Tony Stark blames Steve for tearing the Avengers apart but doesn’t even say anything about his own involvement as he was the first signed the records, knowing the team was split up about it.
* Unfriendly reminder that Tony Stark DOESN’T actually seek an alternative with Steve as you can’t really that easily change parts of a SIGNED agreement.
* Unfriendly reminder that Tony Stark shot Sam after Rhodes got shot by VISION, a fellow teammate, after Sam justifiably dodged and even dove down to Rhodes and Tony and apologised.
Listen, it’s right that Tony gets too much flack but that doesn’t justify bashing Team Cap, especially Steve, Bucky and Wanda. They’ve been through a lot of shit too.
Unfriendly reminder that Tony Stark was working on Ultron behind his teammates backs LONG before Wanda entered the picture.
Unfriendly reminder that she didn’t actually manipulate him at all, she merely looked at his worst fear – that he would be responsible for the destruction of the world – and let him walk away with Loki’s scepter, knowing that his ambition and secrecy would cause his own demise
Unfriendly reminder that Wanda also has severe PTSD, as do most of the rest of the Avengers
Unfriendly reminder that her PTSD was caused when Stark weapons were used to kill her parents in front of her when she was ten – weapons that Tony was ultimately responsible for the sale of, as CEO of his company
Unfriendly reminder that the only thing Steve knew about the death of Tony’s parents was seeing a newspaper clip about their death in a montage of other images while Zola mentioned that “when history didn’t cooperate, history was changed” – information that was released to the public at the end of TWS and that Tony had full access to at any time
Unfriendly reminder that this was also the first time Steve heard anything about how his friend Howard Stark died, and he has no idea what Tony does or doesn’t know about the circumstances surrounding the death of his parents
Unfriendly reminder that the previous few secrets that Tony withheld from the team wound up with Ultron killing hundreds of people and trying to blow up the planet, Wanda being imprisoned at the compound and having her agency and her choice about whether or not to sign the Accords taken away from her, and having the Accords sprung on the team with less than three days for them to critically read a 500-page legal document and come to a decision on whether it was going to be more help or harm
Unfriendly reminder that not all the countries in the U.N. necessarily agreed to the Accords
Unfriendly reminder that Steve’s main objections to the Accords were that they weren’t doing anything to prevent civilian casualties, merely shifting the blame when they happened, and that the U.N. (who were recently outed as having been thoroughly infested with HYDRA and were the same group who tried to solve the alien invasion I New York by sending a nuke at the city) had agendas that weren’t necessarily in line with protecting innocents from all countries
Unfriendly reminder that Tony actually lied to Steve about being able to help Bucky if Steve signed the Accords, knowing full well that Bucky would be interrogated then sent back with T’Challa for execution regardless of whether Steve signed or not
Unfriendly reminder that when Steve tried to warn Tony about the super soldiers that Zemo was about to release, Tony brushed him off and gave Peter the order to attack instead
Unfriendly reminder that Tony intentionally revealed the existence of Laura Barton and her three children to a room full of men looking for something to hold over the rogue Avenger’s heads
Unfriendly reminder that Tony went after his supposed teammates at the airport with LIVE EXPLOSIVES, well aware that they were not wearing any kind of armor AND that they would all be pulling their punches for his team
Unfriendly reminder that Natasha was one of the only people whose priority in this move was keeping her team together, the method be damned. Everyone else was either focused on first stopping Zemo and the super soldiers, or on bringing Steve and Bucky to justice
Unfriendly reminder that Natasha actually endangered herself to stop T’Challa and let Steve escape when she saw that he and Tony were going too far with trying to bring them in
Unfriendly reminder that Tony specifically says in Spiderman: Homecoming that he brought Peter because he knew that Steve wouldn’t fight as hard to stop a kid – essentially using him as a meat shield
Unfriendly reminder that Tony blackmailed and bribed Peter into coming to the fight despite Peter telling him “no” multiple times
Unfriendly reminder that Tony legally kidnapped Peter from his guardian to bring him to Germany
Unfriendly reminder that Steve and Bucky were close friends with Howard, and that Siberia was the first time that they had truly seen what happened to their friend, whereas Tony vocally and repeatedly states how much he hates his father and doesn’t care what happened to him
Unfriendly reminder that Steve didn’t know that Bucky was involved until just then, and Tony specifically says that he doesn’t care
Unfriendly reminder that Tony broke the very Accords he signed – multiple times – but was never reprimanded for it and went back to his tower to sulk, while his teammates who broke it were all imprisoned indefinitely without trial and kept in conditions that violate half of the Geneva Convention’s rules on humane prisoner treatment
Unfriendly reminder that Steve’s letter was meant as an olive branch to Tony – if he ever needed help, Steve would be there – and put himself at great risk to give Tony that option
Unfriendly reminder that this letter was sent to a man that had done nothing but harass Steve since the two met, has mocked and belittled his trauma and suffering, had gone after all the people who Steve holds dear in one form or another, has betrayed Steve and taken actions that severely affected him behind his back, and has made no secret of how much he hates Steve
Unfriendly reminder that Tony was never blamed for Rhody’s injury, and in fact he held Sam responsible despite the fact that it was Vision’s shot that took him out of the sky – a fact that is later pinned on Wanda for being “a distraction”
Unfriendly reminder that Tony only gets this much critical review by the fan base because his stans feel the need to make posts like this that bash every other character with no regard to movie canon and hold Tony up as the paragon of flawless innocence in comparison, while completely ignoring all of the character flaws that keep him from being a Gary Stu
Unfriendly reminder that more of us might even view him as a tragically flawed character if you all didn’t insist on shoving crap like this down our throats
The people who love it, however, will almost all get irrationally angry when anyone questions the “loving and healthy relationship” that they impose on the two of them, save for a small subsect that are here solely for the barely-legal sugar daddy kink fics.
So I’m here to look at what it is exactly that makes half the fandom look at this relationship and go “yeah no, this is not okay.”
Oh, and this is about the point where the Tony stans might want to bail. It gets a bit long, and you all seem to have difficulty with lengthy posts.
wanda maximoff: watched her parents die from a bomb created by stark industries
tony stark: watched his parents get brutally murdered by a man standing 10 feet away from him
wanda maximoff: is pardoned for wanting revenge against tony stark for what he did
tony stark: is a villain for wanting revenge against bucky for what he did
t’challa: watched his father die by a framed bucky barnes
tony stark: watched his mother die by bucky barnes
t’challa: gets to spend the entire film genuinely trying to kill bucky for revenge
tony stark: is a villain for BLATANTLY holding back in a fight due to his reaction to watching the most disturbing and fucked up thing in his life
bucky barnes: mentally manipulated into doing tasks against his will
tony stark: mentally manipulated into doing self-destructive tasks
bucky barnes: is [rightfully] pardoned for years of being a deadly assassin
tony stark: is a villain for creating something to protect earth that eventually backfired
natasha romanova and wanda maximoff: both willingly worked for the bad guys
tony stark: was unaware that his partner and friend had been selling his weapons to the bad guys
natasha romanova and wanda maximoff: get pardoned for the blood on their hands when they join shield/the avengers
tony stark: is a villain for the weapons that obadiah sold to the bad guys despite immediately getting upset about it and confronting him about it
steve rogers: throws an entire trailer at peter without knowing if he has super strength
tony stark: says that they need to hold wanda accountable for her mistakes
steve rogers: gets praised for saying she’s “just a kid” in defending her horrendous mistakes despite her age and the destruction she caused before
tony stark: is a villain for bringing peter to “web them up” and making peter leave the battle the moment he gets hurt
wanda maximoff: never has to own up to working for hydra, manipulating every member of the avengers, or triggering the hulk into destroying a civilian city under her control, joining alongside ultron until she does one good thing, essentially being the cause of all the death and destruction in aou, and eventually not being able to control her powers in lagos that she previously had total control over, which resulted in deaths upon deaths, and also gets to watch the hulk take all the burn and blame for the city she made him destroy
tony stark: literally is held accountable for every single action made by himself along with maximoff and every other avenger, tries his hardest to work alongside ross and 117 countries that all demand superhero registration through the accords as voted for in the UN, despite knowing how much a lot of his team would reject such idea
wanda maximoff: is just a 26 year old kid!
tony stark: is a villain for trying to find a middle ground between selfish team members who refused to be held accountable for being dangerous people and the 117 countries around the world that want them to be held accountable since they’re all powerful & dangerous people (a lot of which have bad histories, see: wanda) who shouldnt be allowed to just freely use their powers when they clearly pose to be a potential threat to the public
everyone else: gets to do shit
tony stark: is a villain for doing similar shit while also being the only one who fucking cares
wanda maximoff: watched her parents die from a bomb created by stark industries Watched her parents die violently right in front of her when she was ten years old, and spent two days without food or water, trapped in the rubble of her home, staring at a live bomb three feet from her face that had not yet detonated, with the “Stark industries” logo plastered on the side serving as the only place for her to lay the blame for her suffering
tony stark:watched his parents get brutally murdered by a man standing 10 feet away from him Watched an old, grainy video of his parents death more than 30 years after the fact
wanda maximoff:is pardoned for wanting revenge against tony stark for what he did Is given endless grief by the fans for giving Tony a bad dream, despite actually letting him off VERY easy, all things considered. She is still called evil and treated like a villain despite dropping her quest for revenge as soon as she realized that it was endangering innocent people. And even though she still has every reason to still believe that Tony is partially culpable in the death of her parents, she has forgiven him and instead dedicated her life to making up for her own past mistakes
tony stark: is a villain for wanting revenge against bucky for what he did Gets to go back to his fancy mansion and make his suits and woo back his girlfriend with his millions while looking like a hero for locking Team Cap in an illegal underwater detainment center, and being completely forgiven for not only destroying public property, breaking the Accords multiple times, kidnapping a child, and trying to kill a man he knew was innocent, but for throwing his team under the bus for something that he had originally done behind their backs, and then leaving them all to rot in jail for the same crimes that he himself had committed
t’challa: watched his father die by a framed bucky barnes Watched his father die due to a bomb, and was later given Bucky as the “culprit” who planted it
tony stark:watched his mother die by bucky barnes
Watched an old, grainy video of his mother’s death more than 30 years after the fact
t’challa:gets to spend the entire film genuinely trying to kill bucky for revenge Is led to believe that Bucky – while in his right mind, and with malicious intent – planted the bomb that killed his father and many others, and proceeds to spend the film alternating between trying to kill Bucky, and –
when other people step in to tell him to stop –
simply trying to arrest him so that he can see Bucky officially brought to justice via trial and conviction
tony stark:is a villain for BLATANTLY holding back in a fight
due to his reaction to watching the most disturbing and fucked up thing
in his life Gets his suit broken a little when he tries to not only murder a man who he knows (and has mentioned multiple times that he knows)
full well is innocent, as well as trying to kill Steve when he steps in to try and protect Bucky/prevent Tony from becoming a murderer. He then gets a first-class lift back to America with the king of Wakanda and gets to become the leader of the “official, UN approved” Avengers, with nobody the wiser as to what really happened in Siberia
bucky barnes: mentally manipulated into doing tasks against his will
tony stark:mentally manipulated into doing self-destructive tasks Has been pursuing self-destructive hobbies for years (a fact that Wanda comments on), and when reminded of his fear of failing by an induced bad dream, he leaps back into his latest failed project with more gusto than before, and is willing to take shortcuts this time because he only has the very dangerous staff that he was specifically warned not to mess with but lied to Thor about to get a hold of it anyway for three days before Thor leaves with it
bucky barnes:is [rightfully] pardoned for years of being a deadly assassin Is nearly killed time and time again for crimes he didn’t commit, is a wanted fugitive from the entire world, and willingly puts himself back into cryosleep to protect others should anyone else try to force him into committing more atrocities against his will
tony stark: is a villain for creating something to protect earth that eventually backfired going behind the backs of his teammates and causing the deaths of hundreds of innocent men, women, and children by lying to his supposed “friends” so he could use a highly dangerous weapon to create a machine that would put him in sole control of the world and it’s “safety” – aka the triskellion 2.0: Stark calls the shots – and having that machine go rogue on him.
natasha romanova and wanda maximoff:both willingly worked for the bad guys Were deliberately orphaned by their abusers at a young age (and in very traumatic ways) and then recruited, abused, and used as child soldiers by evil adults with agendas who didn’t care about their health or wellbeing
tony stark:was unaware that his partner and friend had been selling his weapons to the bad guys Made weapons of mass destruction for sale to anyone with enough money to buy them, constantly attended functions to rub elbows and arrange trade deals with terrorists like Ulysses Claue, and didn’t start caring about whose hands his weapons ended up in until one of them nearly killed him – even then only “fixing” the problem by restricting sales of his weapons to the United States instead of keeping them available to a worldwide market. Only cared that Obie was selling weapons to terrorists insofar as Tony himself was endangered by it, and was more than happy to turn a blind eye to what was going on before that.
natasha romanova and wanda maximoff:get pardoned for the blood on their hands when they join shield/the avengers Are only spared jail or death by the mercy of Clint and Steve respectively, and in turn are spending the rest of their lives dedicated to helping others in order to make up for being kidnapped into an evil organization as children
tony stark:is a villain for the weapons that obadiah sold to
the bad guys despite immediately getting upset about it and confronting
him about it Is seen as a hero for parading around as iron man and throwing a little money at charities on occasion to boost PR ratings. He is only considered a villain by the third world countries who are still facing the affects of his weapons, which are still being used on them by the united states (who purchase them legally from stark) and HYDRA (who are still somehow getting a hold of his weapons even after he’s gotten rid of “the only one selling weapons to terrorists” Stane)
steve rogers: throws an entire trailer at peter without knowing if he has super strength Pins peter with an airport passenger boarding bridge to take him out of the fight in the least painful way possible after facing him one on one and realizing that he has super strength because they played tug of war with the shield and Peter hauled him off his feet
tony stark:says that they need to hold wanda accountable for her mistakes Locks Wanda in the compound behind the team’s back and kicks her off the Avengers roster to hand over to Ross because she couldn’t save everyone from a terrorist bomb at Lagos and Tony still has a vendetta against her
steve rogers:gets praised for saying she’s “just a kid” in
defending her horrendous mistakes despite her age and the destruction
she caused before Is accused of babying Wanda when he tries to remind Tony that Wanda is a human being, not a weapon, and that locking her up for being enhanced is really not okay
tony stark:is a villain for bringing peter to “web them up” and making peter leave the battle the moment he gets hurt Never faces any consequences for legally kidnapping a child, breaking international law as well as the Accords to bring him to Germany to fight a bunch of super-powered adults, hiding his age from the others despite knowing that there is a chance that the others may not pull their punches for Peter, and only tells Peter to sit it out when he is no longer useful, as the battle is moving to the air and Peter can’t fly
wanda maximoff:never has to own up to working for hydra,
manipulating every member of the avengers, or triggering the hulk into
destroying a civilian city under her control, joining alongside ultron
until she does one good thing, essentially being the cause of all the
death and destruction in aou, and eventually not being able to control
her powers in lagos that she previously had total control over, which
resulted in deaths upon deaths, and also gets to watch the hulk take all
the burn and blame for the city she made him destroy Lost her entire world and her only living family member because of the mistakes she made, is seen as a monster
by the rest of the world because of her powers, faces constant harassment from Tony, and always has her actions cast in a villainous light – even if she is saving lives – because people are afraid of her, leading to Wanda solely taking the blame for Rumlowe’s attack in Lagos. (All of this despite making her mistakes when she was young, incredibly ill-informed and acting under dubious consent.)
She winds up locked in a shock collar and straightjacket, kept in prolonged solitary confinement (both of which are legally considered torture) in an underwater prison in the middle of the ocean with only fake light and filtered air (breach of human rights per the geneva conventions) and is treated as nothing more than a weapon of mass destruction by one of her own teammates who later sells her out to a man who is known for hating the enhanced and likely wants to experiment on her to create super soldiers with her DNA.
tony stark:literally is held accountable for every single
action made by himself along with maximoff and every other avenger,
tries his hardest to work alongside ross and 117 countries that all
demand superhero registration through the accords as voted for in the
UN, despite knowing how much a lot of his team would reject such idea Decides to solve the issue of Hulk running 300km from the scrapyard to Johannesburg by starting a fist-fight in the middle of a city, leveling buildings and endangering civilians to try and take Hulk out instead of luring him off or calling in the iron legion act backup, and only making him more angry in the process. Works behind his teammates’ back in corroboration with a man who is known to hate enhanced beings, in order to draft up a contract that enslaves his teammates while completely letting Tony off the hook for Ultron. Tries to coerce the others into signing by lying to his teammates constantly about being able to amend the document and protect their human rights while at the same time stripping one of his teammates of her basic human rights based solely on the grounds that she’s enhanced and he thinks she needs to be locked away somewhere.
wanda maximoff:is just a 26 year old kid! Is only about 18 in AoU and is acting solely on good intentions and bad information. Genuinely cares about people and tries to protect others. Is willing to drop a long-standing grudge against the man that ruined her life and destroyed her family in order to help the Avengers stop Ultron. Is trying her best to be an adult despite spending most of her formative years without any kind of adult influence to show her how to do that.
tony stark:is a villain for trying to find a middle ground
between selfish team members who refused to be held accountable for
being dangerous people and the 117 countries around the world that want
them to be held accountable since they’re all powerful & dangerous
people (a lot of which have bad histories, see: wanda) who shouldnt be
allowed to just freely use their powers when they clearly pose to be a
potential threat to the public Is a 50 year old man who’s never had to be responsible for anything in his life, and is trying to pin the blame for his mistakes on his teammates as a quick fix so he can go back to his parties and his failed attempts at wooing back the girlfriend he constantly takes advantage of. Willingly pushes a document that essentially enslaves half his teammates (as well as Peter and any other enhanced) due to the very nature of their existence, while letting Tony completely off the hook because his enhancements come on and off with the press of a button. Manages to be a constant danger to the public without having any enhancements at all, through being irresponsible and not caring about the consequences of his actions or who he hurts, and is never held accountable for this because he can bribe his way out of most trouble he gets into. Is allowed to freely use his suits for frivolous things (shooting objects at a crowded party, sitting on rooftops eating doughnuts, using his suit as a party trick to get in with the ladies) while never having to stop and consider the consequences of his actions or who he is endangering.
everyone else:gets to do shit Has to face actual consequences for their actions, and actively try to make up for their mistakes. Are always in the fight to protect innocent lives, despite what it will cost them to do so.
tony stark:is a villain for doing similar shit while also being the only one who fucking cares Parties, drinks, and bribes his cares away. Only cares when directly confronted with a problem, and even then only cares in that it’s an annoyance that he needs to make go away. Is in this for the fame, glory, and popularity that comes with being Iron Man. Bails the second that things start going south in the aftermath, and re-joins the team when they’re being praised as heroes again. Is only willing to risk himself when his life is being threatened in the process. Breaks multiple international laws as well as the Accords, and never has to face any kind of legal ramifications for that.
Seriously, OP…
Woobie Tony fanfiction is not Marvel canon.
Stop trying to pretend like every other character is a villain because you are unable to accept the fact that your fav has seriously fucked up.
oversimplification of steve’s character, development, and the actual events of cacw for the sake of trying to make tony look more right? check, check, and check
Steves done nothing but leave his comand since he steped into europe way back 1940-somthing. Okay? And wanna know why, because it was the right thing to do (just like giving up the sheild- if it meant having to go avinst everything he stood for -was thr right thing to do.) (also it meant getting away from tony so plus.)
“ya’ll” “iditos” “Bunky” “Burns” “wasba” okie bby before you send a blog like this hate you should probably double check your spelling. Bucky was killing Nazis, Tony is killing civilians. see the difference? no? hydra made him kill against his will. tony made bombs of his own free will. so before you go defending another rich white guy who you defend because he always makes it clear he has ptsd and you need to “protect him”, check your facts
Cheloneuniverse 